Twilight Imperium
I was in a seven-player game of galactic domination yesterday. Sounds great right?
Actually, Twilight Imperium was traumatic. We started the rules explanation at 10:30 and began the game at 11:00. By 3:30 I was fighting for my life, with no hope of a win. Not wanting to go screw the game balance up, I hung on grimly and we finished at 8pm. That’s 9 hours of play of which 4.5 were no fun.
I made several mistakes, but I was screwed early on as my neighbour had a secret objective to occupy an opponent’s home planet. As a first time player, I had no idea he was out for my blood until it was too late.
My nemesis did not seem to realise that by entering into a blood feud for two measly VP he was screwing himself of any chance of a win. In the end, I came last with 3VP, but he only had 4VP and never took my home planet.
Risk has similar secret player elimination objectives, but that is just about permissible in a three hour game. In a game of this length it is preposterous.
Multiplayer war games are hard to get right. Apart from anything else, once the fun is over, you can’t leave without ruining the game’s balance. One guy had to leave and that left his neighbours in pole position, as they could take his planets and not have to watch their backs. Naturally, one of those two won. Games of this length really should have a method for balancing a situation where a player leaves early. No solution would be perfect, but still.
In future, I’m not playing multiplayer wargames that last over four hours (in real-time, not box-back time) and I will never play Twilight Imperium again.
3/10 – because it has some nice mechanics, lovely components and a strong theme.
Iain – nice to see you yesterday, However, I think your comments here are very harsh and needed a response.
In any game that that involves combat, if you fail to protect your territory, there is a strong chance you will be attacked. Had you done this then you would not have been “screwed early on”. I’m sure you must know this but actually in labelling Ed as the inexperienced player I think you’re well wide of the mark. 2 vp’s is certainly not “measly” in this game so I think Ed acted quite appropriately given how poorly you defended yourself.
If you play games like TI purely to win, then you’re right not to play them again. This is a bit of a cliche but for me it’s as much about the experience of playing as it is about the winning. I can enjoy myself and be satisfied with my playing just by making the best out of the situation even if that means I come last. The same goes for when a player leaves early. I can enjoy the game even if it swings the balance of power a bit. It;s about the taking part, not just the winning.
TI is too long for me as well but that’s purely because 8/9 hours is a huge part of my monthly gaming time. I would love to be able to play it more often because as a war/eurogame hybrid I think it is very good. I am sure it has it’s flaws but someone attacking you because you fail to put up adequate defences is not one of them.
Michael Longdin
7 Jun 09 at 20:33
Hi Mike
I did have a good time. You know how to host a great games day and the guys are a real laugh.
I said that I made mistakes. My biggest mistake was that I did not read the Diplomacy action properly. Ed moved in to my undefended home system – as he was encouraged to do by his secret objectives, and from that point on I was screwed. I should have been more energetic to eject him, but I calculated that he would realise that he was wasting his time. He calculated otherwise and ended up screwing himself almost as badly as he screwed me. There is no way you would have done the same in Ed’s shoes. In fact, I think you made a mistake in not attacking me more energetically. Once a man is down in Twilight Imperium, you might as well make sure he is out. Having said that you managed to amass 7VP or so, without getting your secret objective.
I am not annoyed that I lost. That’s a cheap shot. My record at your house is terrible, and I keep coming back. I’m just irritated that I underwent 4.5 hours of constant shafting. Has that ever happened to you? Try it sometime. In fact, I did get some grim satisfaction out of holding Ed off for so long, but it’s just not as much fun as being in contention.
Ultimately, I find the mentality of multiplayer wargames bitchy and whiney – even when a really nice bunch of friends are playing. It’s just a fault of the genre. Probably best if I avoid them in future – especially when they take 9 hours.
I hope you’ll have me back!
Iain
7 Jun 09 at 20:59
I kind of understand Iain’s frustration, after sitting next to the “peaceful” university planet and having them constantly, pointlessly, irritatingly, ridiculously attack me, turn after turn, hour after hour, achieving absolutely nothing, as I went on to win!
Steve
7 Jun 09 at 23:07
Yes that was a good win and you deserved it. Pete’s leaving early did help you though.
Iain
8 Jun 09 at 07:23
Hmmmm…. I share your frustration. All though I am usually the one that wins by taking advantage of the mistakes of others. I always ask them if they want to call it but most times they foolish insist on playing it out. In chess and in wargames, I have no beef at all with tipping over your king.
The key to player balance in multiplayer wargames is having a 2-4 turn buffer that allows players to consolidate and formulate strategies before being invaded or being forced into battles that may hurt you later.
As far as Michael’s remarks… huh? Euros are games that you play with no need to win… but wargames are made to win… if you are not in to win, please don’t sit in on one of my games.
Joe Steadman
8 Jun 09 at 17:24
I’m always in it to win. I said I did not need to win to still enjoy it
Michael Longdin
8 Jun 09 at 18:58
For a game to last that long it’s got to have a really strong narrative to keep you engaged and to make the time fly by….
it doesn’t sound like TI3 achieves that in any measure.
I had no desire to play it before and even less so now.
Steerpike
8 Jun 09 at 21:06
Replace “Twilight Imperium” with “Age of Steam” and you’re spot on.
Steve Archbold
12 Jun 09 at 06:49
Age of Steam is my favourite game, but I’d hate it if it took nine hours.
Iain
12 Jun 09 at 08:06
It’s not a multiplayer war game. In general you build your forces as a deterrent, not as a means to attack others. From what I’ve heard it is commonly wrongly viewed as a wargame when it is not actually the core of the game.
You’re in a seven player game where one player left and four of you just allowed two neighbouring players to take advantage of the shift? Form alliances, block them.
The problem with longer, heavier and more complex games is that you typically need to play them a few times to get the hang of the options available to you. This is particularly true when the game is easily misinterpreted.
Dan
23 Oct 09 at 15:25
I don’t think I misinterpreted the game. Ultimately it’s just too long for my taste.
Iain
23 Oct 09 at 16:59
[…] a nutshell – Puerto Rico in space with fighting. Twilight Imperium was one of the worst gaming experiences of my life. Galactic Emperor uses the same theme and basic structure but strips out the ridiculous play time. […]
inconsequential ruminations » Blog Archive » Galactic Emperor
16 Apr 10 at 19:11
Not sure if anyone is still following this, but I thought I’d give the game a quick defense.
First, the play time decreases with experience. The first 6 player game we played took about 8 hours. After 2 or 3 more we were down to about 6 1/2 hours. Now, after roughly 12-15 games , we can finish most games of 6 player in a little over 4 hours. New players (first or second game) add literally hours to the game, however.
Another factor is even more significant, however. TI is not, in the strictest sense, a war game at all. The goal is to collect victory points, and the majority of those do not require conflict.
A wise player avoids conflict as much as possible, fighting only in defense, and where absolutely necessary to gain victory points which are otherwise unavailable. Diplomacy is a far more effective tool to maneuver into a position to claim a VP. Revenge, a popular tool in war games, is just not wise in TI, as both players wind up on the losing end.
As a war game player, one’s tendency is to see all the colourful tiles and warships strewn across the board, and think that you can win by dominating the board, but you can’t. Since you are limited by the number of ship models you have, galactic domination is simply not possible. By claiming a reasonable sized territory (ie. not large enough to piss off your neighbours), you will have the resources necessary to meet a good portion of the objectives.
Likewise, if you expand carefully, there should be relatively few early game opportunities for imbalance.
One last note. You all know a board game player or two who likes to be a rules lawyer. DO NOT invite this player to a game of TI. There are too many rules, and a too poorly organized rule book to allow a place for this kind of player. If a rule comes up which is ambiguous, vote on a resolution and move on, or all of your games will be unpleasantly long.
In short, give the game another shot, and you won’t be disappointed. Keep in mind though, that it takes some getting used to.
Markus
10 Dec 10 at 19:22
Hi Markus. Thanks for the attention.
Ultimately this was one of the worst gaming experiences of my life – especially my argument with Michael above. I’ll never play TI3 again, but I accept that it’s good for games of this type.
Iain
10 Dec 10 at 22:30